...And look at you now. Full time Patch poster.

How about the people that died as a result of your friends wild old times, Lloyd? I guess *they* aren't around, either?

Let's face it, DUI/DWI simply wasn't reported years ago. There was no mechanism with which to report it. So when people claim it didn't happen, they are being ignorant and misinformed.

About Long Beach: I met a guy down in Aruba who was in the Marines. He came from the Boston area. When he found out I was from Long Beach, he told me that Long Beach is the number one location in the United States for bars per square mile, and number *two* in the WORLD. We have a problem, folks. There's nothing wrong with shutting down illegal sales to minors. Granted, I feel as if the age should be lowered. But that still doesn't mean 13 and 14 year olds should have easy access to alcohol.

Yes we do have a problem, specifically when our residents travel out of town and believe any stupid line that comes out of drunk from Bahston. Who knows he may even been faking the accent.

Maybe we can cut the nonsense and get real by recognizing that the 21 yo drinking law is counter productive and unfair. As university presidents around the country have stated, it makes no sense nor is it effective to ban alcohol for the 18-20 age group. I know DWI among that group (and others) is down since the law went into effect, but drinking isn't and DWI awareness and education re tough penalties for DWI probably account for those positive results.

Let's see now. We have a movie theatre, the recreation centre - complete with a swimming pool and an ice skating rink, all different teams run by the rec, just to name some activities off the top of my head. There are plenty of things to do here. They just don't WANT to. When I was growing up here the bowling alley was operational and NO we did not hang out there. The *reality* is is that there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with pressing charges against this guy. There is NOTHING WRONG with limiting access to underage drinking. Of course they will find a way, but is it necessary to make it so friggin easy?

Hey, I see more parents that disappear and leave their houses empty for the kids to party away, or are even HOME while the kids are drinking and doing drugs. As far as I'm concerned, they are simply lazy and irresponsible. It's not easy to take a stand, so they don't bother. People who try to be good role models for their kids are made to look "uncool". THAT is the reality.

Thanks for listening :)

Lala, the swimming pool (which is gross and the ceilings in the rec are leaking inside whenever it rains) are not available to kids at night. And, what 15-20 year old wants to go swimming on a saturday night? The ice rink isn't available at night for the kids either. Sure we have a movie theatre where the kids get charged about $15 for an hour and a half movie-- but then what? There really isn't anything available for the targeted age range of 15-20 on Friday and Saturday nights. We expect 18 year olds to be adults in every aspect of their life except when it comes to alcohol. It's not really fair. The education about alcohol abuse needs to continue and parents need to be good role models for their children.

The rec is open at night, late. Lots of the young people in town who don't drink and smoke pot go there.

Eddie, Friday night the rec closes at 9:30 and Saturday it closes at 8:30... That is not "open at night, late" The teens need something constructive to do past 8:30 and 9:30 if we want to curb their only other alternative available which is underage drinking

Lala, in reviewing your posts, I see we agree "there are plenty of things to do here" and "they just dont WANT to" and "there is NOTHING WRONG with...pressing charges...limiting access".
One issue though, and I ask respectfully: Why are you not reporting the party houses? I know you say it is not easy to take a stand but if their parents don't, you can anonymously. You see, I believe that is a more effective means for dealing with the under 18 crowd. Let them and their parents know the "majority?" of us won't tolerate it, that we will protect minors, take loco parentis stands.
Drug testing to qualify for school extra curriculars or to test a sensible hypothesis for poor academic performance or behavior for specific students with parental permission...? Aggressive, yes, not sure I support it, but potentially effective for that under 18 group... what do you think.

Lala,
Is that all you have? You have to resort to is calling people names?

I think its a great idea-- didn't the city try that within recent years though with the room above the ice rink? They called it something like the teen center I think? I don't think it worked so well. I think maybe we should target the HS kids and ask them exactly what they need/want to have fun and then see what we can do to help provide this for them and maybe make it something that they create themselves where they can list the games that they like to play, the snacks they want there, the music they like, and the movies they like.

I just wanted to ask here, at what time should the 13-16 crowd be at home on a weekend night? I remember as a young teen under 18 my parents saying I had no business being out after 9pm much less later than that. The exception being if it was a sleepover at a friends house with parental supervision. Seems from what I read here parents are afraid to say to their kids.... its late & you should be in the house.... No debating required!!

There is a place for them to hang out in Island Park. The N15 bus gets you within a block of it. The HUB billiards hall now has 2 levels. Billiards, ping pong, air hockey and darts on the first level and the second has arcade games, more billiards and live bands 3 or 4 nights a week. on thusday there is an open jam and they can bring instruments and play as well. they serve some food and non-alcoholic beverages. I go to the jams and I see kids of all ages there and some really great bands. there are alos TV's everywhere to watch local sports...the place is really great. My daughters go there a few times a month with there friends.

I guarantee that "bunch" is in the tiny minority, or that they do things that you do not know about.

Do you have any idea how much underage drinking and other mischief costs the City of Long Beach already? Consider this an investment in their future. Seriously.

Eddie, if there were actually a "bunch" of kids doing productive things past 9:30 other than drinking, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? Kids need constructive things to do at night on the weekends. A agree that investing in our future will save us in the long run, but you are also correct when you say parents should take responsibility for their children. At the end of the day, the parents of the kids younger than 18 should be responsible, but as we know, kids will be kids. As a community we need to find other alternatives for kids. As the coalition for underage drinking told us at the council meeting that they have a grant for over $800k, maybe we can get something like that to help build something for the kids so its not all on the tax payers.

Well, in all likelihood, if a teen athlete has substance abuse issues, their performance is telling. As are their grades. Mandatory drug-testing is very aggressive, and a real turn off for the kids who are perfectly clean, but feel violated by having to test.

Give the kids healthier alternatives that *they* get to define, with hours that are more suited to their needs. Money can be saved by having other kids work the concessions, movies, etc. for community service credit, or pay them minimum wage. We could also implement a small student activity fee to help defray the costs. Of course adult supervision will have to be there, but not all the workers have to be adults.

A stitch in time saves nine :)

Lala,
You ridiculed yourself and brought questions to any of your positions when you beilved some drunken bahstonian and then repeated the incredulous comment as a rationalization for your position. And then when you realized that maybe some parts of your reasoning made little or no sense you responded as expected. Not by refuting my comment but by resorting to name calling.

Lala,
When you followed up your anecdote with "we have a problem" you are using this nonsensical "anecdote" as a supporting argument to your statements. What did this anecdote bring to the topic of discussion? If that statement is laughable it brings all your statements into a different light.

Neal: Please point out where I indicated that the teen club would be the sole solution? You missed my reference to lowering the legal age, as well as my posts addressing the role the lack of responsible parenting plays. Please be more attentive to what people write before you lambast them.

Furthermore, what difference does it make where the grant came from? I'm not sure where you are going with that. Of course investing in this sort of endeavour requires research beforehand. That goes without saying.

However, do you seriously think that simply lowering the drinking age to 18 is going to alleviate our problems here? Do you seriously think that these lazy, irresponsible parents of 12-13-14-15-16-and 17-year olds are going to magically become responsible with the lowering of the legal age, like some magic bullet? This problem needs to be addressed on a *number* of fronts. Lower the age to 18, hammer away at vendors who supply to those under 18, enforce the social host law, and provide safe alternatives to kids under 18. Of course we will still have a problem. But HOPEFULLY these mechanisms will serve to reduce it in some way.

Neal:
Of course the grant is somehow taxpayer funded. What else could it possibly be?
I am still waiting to hear YOUR suggestions on how the grant could be "better spent". All I have seen from you and Eddie is the usual "lower the drinking age" recommendation. This is all well and good, but all it serves to do is lower the *statistical* reporting of underaged drinking by lowering the bar Personally, I would much rather lower the *incidence* of underage drinking. That is, after all, what the *real* problem is, no?

LLoyd:

I agree with you, but only to a point. Sometimes regardless of the involvement of the parents, stuff happens. The peer pressure is enormous. Kids have fragile egos. This is why I support a multi-pronged approach. This way we can attack the problem from a number of fronts, right?

Eddie: Sorry about that mistake. I mixed you up with someone else (re: lowering drinking age). We already have the grant, so it's a moot point as to whether the "government" is involved. It would be nice to see it put to something positive and useful.

My daughter was *very* active in sports, especially soccer later on. She also works as much as possible. But she has no interest in "clubs". If the clubs are associated with the High School, we *did* actually pay for it via our taxes, by the way. No big deal. I'd rather see my taxes go to positive pursuits like that. I am very, very involved. Always have been. She still gets swayed by temptations, though. It's frustrating, I assure you. I am always home. Rarely drink. Never drink and drive. I've always been exceptionally, painfully aware of being a role model for her. Like I said, it's frustrating!

I never heard of "Project Challenge".

RICH: I forgot about that place. Good idea :)

Thanks for your response Lala. I am a retired HS teacher. I think I began to see the phenomenon known as "excessive binge drinking" start to surge about the time that the 21 yo drinking law went into effect as so many of the places where 18-20 yo's could drink in moderation and with adult supervision while listening to music or watching a game or having "wine and cheese" with a date went under with the law and younger drinkers began to buy illegally, get tanked, and then go to some places where they could no longer buy a beer.
I think doing anything to support sound parenting, funding adult education run by credentialed specialists, or providing more meaningful and balanced education about the impact of drug use and abuse can be helpful as well. But a big bang for those big bucks could also be accomplished by using the $ to incentivize model behavior by students and parents... paying for action and results as opposed to preaching abstinance or providing "alternatives" that do not absolutely mitigate the wrong/bad choice. What if students got something tangable for choosing to be drug tested OR parents, something tangible for insuring that their kids have excellent attendance while coming to school ready? JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE. I value the excellent parenting that you, Eddie, Rich, Ivan and Lloyd are committed to. Why don't we use money to make it easier and to reward excellent parenting and good student citizenship. This grant $ comes from NYS tax... your $.

Hey Shawn and Lala, one other thought. Why not use funding to teach a course that teaches young people about the history of alcohol use and abuse throughout human history. Alcoholic drinks, beer, and wine are important and valued in almost all cultures throughout human history (in fact, there is even a hypothesis that fermenting grain surplus leading to "magic" inebriation could have played a role in determining the settlement choices of early river valley civilizations). Learning about the cultural roots of alcoholic beverages, the valued place they have in culinary and recreational life, the predisposition of humans to experiment with inebriation would correlate with the real world understanding of drinking that Shawn correctly suggests we need to take into account... much better that a message of abstinance and illegality. They might also learn about the bio genetics of addiction, indications of abuse concern and how they can best help themselves or a friend, the neural impact of drinking and other inebriants on critical thinking, studying, physical structures in their bodies. They might also learn the difference between a petit sirah and a zinfandel, a pilsner and a bock and how and why various food couplings are recommended. They will learn how many responsible adults can be enthusiasts w/o becoming problem drinkers, but also how to know when their is reason to believe that they might be predispossed to a problem. Then let these young adults be adults, with guidance.

Maybe these 17 yo need to examine exactly why they are so bored, why THEY feel so limited in the midst of their relative recreational wealth/options Nancy.
Speaking of THEY: Who is the THEY who tore down the bowling alley? Who is the THEY tasked with planning and financing the facilities and programs that will prevent these 17 yo' s from making the only other choice ("go out on the street and get in trouble")? Where is there a place where a THEY provide publicly funded places for teens to hang out after 10 pm without "kids or parents hanging out"? What time should a 16/ 17 yo be home at night? What prevents a group of 17 yo from figuring out how to have some fun without parental involvement or some form of threat that failure to provide could lead to "trouble" in the neighborhood of those people who pay significant taxes to provide them w/ an excellent school, wonderful extracurricular activities and clubs, a rec center, ice rink? Has anyone considered digging into a good book during down time? Nancy, these "bored" kids sound either boring or spoiled. Don't feel so bad. It sounds like you are doing your best. I think the community is too. The LB I know is a thousand times more teen friendly than the suburban community I grew up in.